Or you would have to have enough slide play for the slide movement to physically disengage the sear and striker leg mating surfaces. He wanted to see how accurate the gun was, especially after the customer got it back after the voluntary upgrade. NO, SIG has a problem that they would rather fight in court. They are plaintiffs versions of what they say happened. Really? But SIG Sauer said it has rectified the issue with upgrades, including one made for the U.S. military which court documents, filed as part of one of the lawsuits, show resulted in substantial changes to the weapons internal design. It takes time for any new platform to work the kinks out. Posts: 21156 | Registered: November 05, 2003. The moral of all of this is the reason Sig got the military contract was because they were selling guns at close to cost, they underbid Glock by a significant margin. 2) The p320 does have a half cocked notch. Its just that with hundreds of millions of firearms in the hands of more than one-third of the countrys population including a lot of cops some number of negligent discharges will inevitably happen. If you can make the trigger move backwards, all bets are off. And I suspect at end of day this recent P320 one will be identified as a negligent discharge or from weapons from 2017 where owners failed to . The drop-bang thing only happened at a very narrow event window, it was only once the Internet doom-preachers figured out that narrow window and did it over and over online did it appear to be a thing. Sig adapted and changed the pistol sufficiently to prevent even that issue. Sig P320 Accidental Discharge 2021 Perhaps nothing speaks more clearly to the need for a total recall than the fact that in 2021, over four years after Sig Sauer offered its voluntary upgrade, people are still suffering injuries and lawsuits continue to be filed. On Thursday, M.D. The P320 should be scrapped and SIG Sauer USA should redesign a new pistol around the striker firing mechanism instead of just retrofitting a hammer fired pistol (P250). The suit mirrors lawsuits filed across the country involving the semi-automatic gun known as the P320. TAMPA, Fla., July 27, 2021 /PRNewswire/ -- A 30-year veteran law enforcement officer with the Tampa Police Department (TPD) today filed a lawsuit against Sig Sauer, Inc., the maker of his. Its a novelty, its got issues! Fundamentally, the bits that the ambulance chaser claims are flawed function exactly the same way as a S&W M&P. Were not saying that the suits against GLOCK are any more (or less) substantiated than those against SIG. And have the dropping 320 go off? They are being replaced with Glocks. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. Again the Far Right Stupidity and hypocrisy is infinite. Ron Cohen ruined Kimber and now hes doing the same to SIG. Where is that defect now? Without a loser pays tort system, such abuse will go on and on. ABC News ran two reports on the topic last week, highlighting one particular cop in Bridge City, Texas who is suing SIG for $15 million. , 54 people all shooting themselves. There were a lot of changes. For instance theres Lieutenant Thomas Ahern who was was performing a routine function (test) of his P320 when it fired at him without any force towards the trigger, resulting in the bullet impacting his left thigh.. Like many of our readers, weve been watching the slow drip, drip, drip of lawsuits accumulate over the past couple of years against SIG Sauer. Good job! The military is already shopping for a new sidearm. Thats fine. Their visceral hatred for that which they see as competition to their little golden calf god and their blind, myopic, childish self-identification with an external dynamic is hilarious! Grow up, you aint all that! Sig Sauer's headquarters are located in New Hampshire at Pease International Tradeport. Give me a break. I am also very much a DS9 fan, best series overall. She claims that her holstered P320 pistol went off while she was carrying it in her purse. PDs are dropping them from contracts. I mean hey, yelling about firearms preferences online is no more productive than discussing nerdy Star Trek stuff, is it? The SIG P320, which has been manufactured since 2014, is known to go off without the trigger being pulled if it's dropped and lands on the ground at a certain angle. An x-ray (fluoroscope) of the mechanism in operation could show what, if anything, is happening inside the gun that might prove, or disprove, the contention that the gun is flawed. If it was so bad, why did the US Marines, who had the Glock, drop it in favor of the carry sized P320, the M18? LEO handguns get into struggles, they get laid and rolled on, they get smacked into vehicles/doorways, they get dropped, they get drawn and holstered way more often than their civilian counterparts. I went to an outdoor public range with a local SWAT entry team leader. Second, your claim that the military is dumping because theyre problematic? You need a lead that can be the lightening rod and not be afraid to make an ass of themselvesit give the watcher permission to take it seriously. They cant even make claim to doing a twice a year qual. Whether or not the suits have merit. The claim basically boils down to the notion that in normal, unconcerning operation, a foreign body entered the striker body. Canadas highly-trained counterterrorism force, JTF-2, is the only military unit with the SIG P320 in its inventory right now. I would rather play handball with the Devil himself because if you deal with the Devil he will tell you that you agreed to lose your soul for a big box full of millions in cash. To be sure, Ive informally asked every other owner of a Serpa holster when I meet them, whether they have ever had an ND because of the holster. Well I jumped in bed with ma and pa , told them that the devil was in Arkansas. So are dumb(or arrogant) cops. Id read that for TMP, they got NASA to help in the design of the refit Enterprise. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. Maybe its a technical issue, maybe its a training issue. SIG ultimately settled that lawsuit. Everyone remember the video of the DEA agent shooting himself while explaining that he was highly qualified to carry a gun? Hes like the arrogant star QB on your favorite football teamyeah, you would never want to spend a weekend with him at the lake cabin, but your franchise would be little to nothing without him. His annual qualification consisted of shooting 32 rounds. Yes, its reliable, but no more so than most other major brands well known models. This is why we now have back up safeties on garden tractors and riding lawn mowers. Quite frankly, a sizable number of the LEOs that go there, would benefit from a Gun Safety 101 class. I sold that pistol when I got it back. Two, the plunger may have a propensity to remain partially raised, or staged, instead of returning fully to its secure position, lessening the energy necessary to move it and thus allowing less effort to do so. Neither argument is relevant or very intelligent and certainly not useful. But Im observant enough to see the same voices that said in 1985 that This new fangled Glock is a just a plastic toy! As a result, the P320s were withdrawn from service, leaving the JTF-2 with their older P226s. Thats why the US Marines have Sigs. Carrying a handgun in a purse, particularly one that isnt designed specifically to carry a firearm, is problematic at best. The Government mandated it to be made more safe to use and was. Yesterday, a Canadian news outlet, CBC News, published a story regarding the unintended discharge last year of a SIG P320 by a Canadian Special Operator, resulting in injury and his unit withdrawing the pistol from service. But I hope Sig fights it until the bitterest of ends. Excellent work. I think making guns easy to shoot has gone too far. Not too long after they sold a pistol to the public and United States military thats not even DROP SAFE?!? D. So I think it is unconscionable, given the number of incidents of this gun defectively discharging without a trigger pull, would necessitate that someone order it to be recalled and only SIG can do that.. On Nov. 5, 2020, a recently-purchased SIG Sauer P320 pistol went off unexpectedly at a training range in Dwyer Hill, outside of Ottawa. Anyway there was one good thing to come from those movies, The USS Vengeance. The thing I hate is getting kicked around! Hello perpetrators, Lee Paige is clearly the gift that keeps on giving though our buddy Hunter Biden is a close second! I lost $150 dumping that gun and Sig instead of acknowledging that it had a problem and calling it a recall, denied all and everything and called it a voluntary upgrade., At my LGS a P320 just went off when one of the guys put it the counter when he set up a target. And people have a way of looking for ways to deflect blame for those discharges, especially when they stand to lose their job as a result. It sure wasnt her fault though, because she was flooring the. Then when the gun still wouldnt operate right, field stripped it and cleared the debris, but didnt understand the gun enough to realize it was now super broken. And yes, if I pulled some of those stunts, Id have my membership revoked. The weapon was out of battery when it fired.. He had to be reprimanded by the range officer twice for unsafe handling of his pistol. First off, no joke on me. LOL! Oct 20, 2022 #36 ; vh20 said: . MIM strikers made in India and put into Sigs. The sheriff's office said its investigation found no mechanical problems with its deputy's gun. Cops are crap with guns, unlike me, a REAL pistolero! But it also has much worse quality control on the parts in my experience owning and working on both. The incident with the P320 - a contender for a major Canadian Armed Forces procurement of thousands of pistols and holsters that has a Aug. 3 deadline for industry proposals - occurred at JTF-2's Dwyer Hill training range just west of Ottawa. He was told to shoot two rounds. As far as ships go, Im drawn to the original movie vessels because they look the most, to me, like something youd really see humans build in space in 300 years. The pictures on the internet were enough to scare the shit out of you especially his wound in the thigh. He was told to shoot two rounds. Later when he was driving he shifted his weight and this caused the trigger to be pushed back further and it went off and shot him and the bullet then also blew a big hole in the floor board of this truck. The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. While it seems that I have a preference for battle ships, The Romulans had Warbirds. Hilton has filed a $15 million lawsuit alleging the P320 has a serious design and manufacturing flaw. SIG is choosing to litigate their problems away. I also have a manual safety. Canadian soldier. It provides another example of how the gun free zone purportedly keeps people safe by not only keeping guns away, but by requiring more discharges nearby. I wish nothing bad on anyone carrying regardless of brand. I would trust a hungry lion on the Serengeti plains of Africa more than I would a C.E.O. Glock is being sued too, because once loaded and a round is chambered, it also has a much lighter trigger than a DA/SA. The Glock fails on both counts. Mine is very accurate. Once word of that got out there was an avalanche of sexual harassment lawsuits against Fox news. (b) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor. Lastly, ship-wise I have to go with the TMP-era refit Enterprise, regardless of Captain. Fair enough. As for the Serpa holster, this is a bunch of internet echo chamber BS that originated with Obama-era federal agencies putting a bad light on a good product in order to sway public opinion and thus damage the manufacturers bottom line. Both versions of the ABC report included comments from Officer Hiltons attorney, Jeffrey Bagnell, who said, Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves. The Defiant regardless of who is the captain. The weapons are currently on the shelf and the soldiers have returned to using their older model SIG P226s. My bet would be that someone had a fully loaded gun in a gym bag and a cloth or rag snagged the trigger. The American manufacturer of the new pistols belonging to Canadas special forces claims the soldier wounded in an accidental discharge last fall was using the wrong holster for the weapon. I am still waiting for the UPS man (not from the devil but from Sig) I will not hold my breath. (The defect couldnt be duplicated after the crash.). These lawsuits arent about Sig making a defective weapon, theyre about lawyers building a nationwide consensus in civil trial that makes it easier (and more lucrative) to soak gunmakers. Everyone knows Glocks are the absolute pinnacle of perfection and have never had one single defect ever! To make the striker leg pull off of the sear, you would have to impart a lot of rearward momentum and stop it suddenly. 2. SIG P320s were just the start and the P365 isnt far behind. The Glocks trigger had caught on a fold in the leather holster and it pushed the trigger part way back. Note the addition of ominous background music in the second seven-minutes-longer version (there was no music in the Good Morning America version). Not just police in US had issues with sig p320. Either the gun is defective or its not. Who knows. Thats the same. No picture for me. But this time, the sound bites used were different. Sometimes you dont get what you pay for but now SIG has bragging rights. Holding the striker fully cocked with nothing to block it if the sear fails is questionable at best. What exactly did Harrison mean by legal momentum? That isnt clear, but its easy to make an educated guess. Theres still the P938 extractors snapping they refuse to acknowledge. One hell of a conspiracy. No the devil went down to Georgia to learn how to play a fiddle. Going on Sigs reputation I bought a P320. Remember the stupidity of the far right is infinite and the blind greed of the gun makers prove they could not care less about human life and suffering. Why you and I are arguing over a gun that neither owns or will own, Asking for a friend. Is it? Sigs are crap! He likens it to a bow-and-arrow, pulled taut. No autographs, No self taken pictures. Fourth, no one takes Taurus seriously. Note that Harrisons comment about these claims possibly being the result of legal momentum were edited out of the longer Nightline version of the report. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g. And as far as Special Forces go, SF going to Glock has been documented as a bean counters solution to save money. When a consumer product is likely to be operated in such a way that it causes accidents because it is way too easy to make a serious mistake because of human error when operating it the manufactures are told that the machine must be made safer. Its not happening on your person without some catastrophic event. There was no holster involved. It upgraded its P320 pistols in October 2018, before the middle school incident, spokeswoman Amanda. Then either the gun somehow managed to magically clear both the broken tab and foreign body to continue to operate. At least the Lion roars when he is hungry, the C.E.O smiles at you and when you turn your back he puts a knife right into it. Whats this silly BS? and youve gotten this far reading our thread. First, clearing a loaded firearm with a finger over the muzzle doesnt exhibit even cursory adherence to the Four Rules. . In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. ABCs own hired consultant, who appears to have no dog in these fights, asserted that he could find no reasonable explanation for these claims and that he considers the upgraded P320 pistols safe for sale to law enforcement and the public. 3. Oh, if you another thread reader asking Wheres the Sig/Glock bashing? I continue to bet my life on them. LOL! Each incident gives them more blood for their macabre dance, and another tic-mark for their context-free gun violence tally. The 1911 had one added, the FN 1905 had one added in 1906. Bagnell told TTAG that he believes the problem with the striker-fired P320 is an inadequate sear/striker connection (he has images he says illustrate this on his website). Hammer guns have a half cock notch for a reason. The VIP screening with the meet and greet was like $600. I dont know nothing about Sigs, I do know any gunm that goes off when I lay it on a table gets sold with a warning and I never touch that brand or model again. BAM. (unless theyre SWAT or something). It was at that point that I knew the gun had a design flaw. My dad owned one and that is exactly what happened one time when he was using it. Then Weve got to go 9mm Nato. And hasnt been nothing but looking for the holy grail since. Theyre cheering for a noose around their own precious Glocks throat. Picard if Im limited to NCC-1701. Use a proper holster and follow other gun safety protocols. Who function tests their firearm 1) with a round in the chamber, and 2) when its pointed at an extremity? The problem with Sig is with their polymer pistols. Right up front, the use of an ill-fitting/improper-for-the-gun holster instantly negates any idea of an unintended discharge being the fault of the design. TidalWave Professional Aug 25, 2021 #17 Bassbob said: Somehow I seriously doubt the guns just shot themselves. . No Warp core, just a quantum singularity, The engine was basically a dorm fridge. Stupid marine, cop, citizen, its their fault. Bagnell is representing a number of the police officers who have filed suits against SIG for un-commanded discharges, but wouldnt disclose the exact number. Capitol Police Officers Explanation for Shooting and Killing Ashli Babbitt Is Riddled With Problems, The City of Wichita Raked In Almost $200,000 Selling Seized Guns in the Last Five Years, State Judge Issues Order Blocking Enforcement of Illinois Firearms Ban Act Statewide, Federal Judge Grants Injunction Blocking Enforcement of ATFs Frame or Receiver Rule, Illinois Rep. Bob Morgan: Anything Stamped M&P is a Weapon of War, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM, https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/, https://sofrep.com/news/dod-evaluation-says-armys-new-sig-sauer-p320-service-pistol-riddled-issues/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g, https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan. Too much MIM in that crap SIG, the old ones were great. The settlement requires the gunmaker to reimburse owners of . The problems associate with those pistols (and the P365) have long since been ironed out. Have heard of no issues like the alleged gremlin caused spontaneous discharges of the P320 in other Sig models. You clanging a bell that went silent years ago. Keep your finger off the trigger unless you are ready to shoot. When he opened the drawer the hinges pulled the Charters trigger. there is no better. It has nothing to do with Glock. The Collette suit, for example, lists 39 such discharges, all but five of which involved law enforcement officers. If this were a car, a phone, a refrigerator, it would have been recalled long ago. Kyle . But Shatner? Its difficult to believe thats a coincidence. The HK VP70 was made in 1970 when Gaston Glock was making curtain rods. Seems a bit apologetic to me. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. This is the goal of those who would disarm us at the Post Office, as we take little Yevgeniy or little Shaquina to school, as we fulfill our civic responsibilities as jurors to judge our peers, as we travel to and through less free jurisdictions. It may be a rotten trigger, but it does highlight the fact it has a much lighter trigger compared to classic semi-autos and revolvers. My gun just went off! Sounds like these officers and others are attempting to cover their posteriors. The trigger bar has to push up on it, for it to release. This leads me to conclude that the problem is not the gear but the moron using it. Theres also an un-named Texas gun shop manager who says a P320 fired as he cleared the weapon, blowing off one of his fingers. saw the video, doesnt explain how it bypasses striker pin safety. The safety WILL prevent the gun from firing with a trigger pull when activated, but it should never come to that. Infact you have to pay shipping cost to get that fixed even though its their screw up. Second, every gun maker has made lemons in the past. Glock's and Sig P320 are all designated as Double-Action-Only fire control mechanisms. It was one of the first ones and was sent back as a voluntary upgrade. With Biden spending outrageous amounts of money, whats 100 million here or there? The sear cams it back a teeny bit. I have no idea. I know off body carry is a recipe for disaster. To put it simply, they are expensive cheaply made junk. Seems kind of like a Sig apologist article. Its interesting that ABC chose to leave that point out of one of their reports. What it likely means is that cops and other law enforcement officers carry and handle their guns far more often than the average Joe or Jane. He probably had a double until it was over. 19 Feb 2021 Military.com | By Matthew Cox A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 -- a pistol. And the idea some random comment section P320 hater thinks theyre smarter & more knowledgeable than the Army, Navy, Airforce, Coast Guard and Marine Corp combined regarding military pistol selection is just freaking laughable! I love when people call law enforcement officers highly trained. Most dont get more training than what they had in the academy unless they are getting paid time to train, or are going for something speciality such as S.W.A.T. Remember the highly trained FBI officer whose gun went off in a nightclub? Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Manual safeties on pistols, hammer and striker fired systems were found necessary as far back as 1900. Rather, it's because those LEO P320 pistols are seeing much more physical action than ones carried by civilians. The weapon had a history of going off unexpectedly when it was dropped at a certain angle. In a world of "innovative" guns, this truly is an innovated design and a step in the right direction for the future of pistols. We will respect the ongoing investigation and will not offer further comment at this time, Bineau said.
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